18

7/31/2012 9:22:39 PM

Quote :

"i still dont get the tolbert signing. He was pretty bad last year and horrible in short yardage situations. I know he was injured, but still... why would we ever want to give the ball to him over cam in short yardage anyway?"

In addition to what erryone else said, a couple reasons off the top of my head: 1. It'd be nice to have more than one option in short yardage situations so the defense doesn't know what's coming. 2. Cam getting hurt would suck, so it'd be wise to not have him take all the hits that come with short yardage carries.

7/31/2012 9:28:29 PM

he's basically gonna be our starting fullback

7/31/2012 9:34:45 PM

Tolbert will be our FB with a threat to run and catch out of the backfield. He is not a focus but an instant help. Also a blocking back for Cam.


III

8/1/2012 12:40:23 AM

Tolbert may look like a fullback, but he isn't one. Tailback all the way, can't block for shit. He'll be splitting reps with DWill and JStew. He IS a bitch to play against.

8/1/2012 12:48:07 AM

he's an H-Back but i didn't want to bring that terminology up on TWW cause people assume that means halfback aka running back

he's basically Shockey's replacement

8/1/2012 12:52:25 AM

Tolbert can't run-block, but he's a good pass-blocker. He'll be in there on 3rd and long.

If he can get his fumbling issues under control, he'll be decent in short yardage.

8/1/2012 1:25:30 AM

tell me about visiting Camp practices and what I'm allowed and not allowed to bring. I haven't been down in a LONG time.

8/1/2012 8:18:45 AM

We can't use tolbert in short yardage situations. He's not capable, see: last year.


The h back role makes a lot more sense since we can't throw to Deangelo

8/1/2012 11:44:27 AM

Steve Reed said this morning they have been lining him up all over the field and he is in for nearly every red zone play they've run to this point. Was absolutely raving about his usage in Chud's offense. Also mentioned he has caught a bunch of dump offs in the flat when the play breaks down.

8/1/2012 12:09:26 PM

^^you're making a lot of assumptions based on his performance with a completely different offense and different O-line.

8/1/2012 12:18:13 PM

I predict that Tolbert will be my least favorite fantasy football player for the 3rd year in a row. I refuse to draft that guy, but every time I play against him he has 5 carries, 3 yards and two TDs

8/1/2012 12:28:11 PM

He won't get those TDs, those are the ones that Cam got last year.

8/1/2012 12:38:42 PM

Right, but you have to figure they're not too keen on having their franchise plow his head into the line needlessly time and time again. I expect those 14 scores to remain his career high, with annual totals normalizing in the 6-8 range, with the occasional foray back into double digits.

8/1/2012 12:41:24 PM

^^ You should change your scoring system . We changed ours after the infamous Jerome bettis game. 5 carries, 2 yards, 3 td.

Rushing td are now worth three, six is antiquated kinda like the ridiculous leagues in the late 80s and early 90s that gave 6 points for passing td

8/1/2012 12:42:18 PM

rushing TDs are, and always will be, worth 6 points.

8/1/2012 1:33:03 PM

^^what kind of league do you play in!?

8/1/2012 1:56:33 PM

$350 entry. 6 points for a rushing TD is silly. Fantasy football is more fun when the league reflects reality.

A one yard TD dive specialist is not a more valuable player than the guy getting 20 carries for 100 yards. It wasn't such a big deal until 5-6 years ago when the entire league started moving away from one featured back.

You have to adapt your fantasy league to changes in the NFL or your fantasy league becomes some perversion of real football where everyone starts goaline backs.

[Edited on August 1, 2012 at 2:04 PM. Reason : a]

8/1/2012 2:02:02 PM

Quote :

" Fantasy football is more fun when the league reflects reality."

You mean the kind of reality where the guy that crosses the goal line with the ball gets six points for his team?

8/1/2012 2:35:02 PM

Quote :

"FANTASY"

Quote :

"REALITY"

8/1/2012 2:45:30 PM

You don't really think the 1 yard TD is more valuable than the 60 yards gained proceeding it, do you?

This is like an argument I might have with a 5 year old.


When you play fantasy basketball do you make blocks worth 20 points each so the whole league starts backup centers?

[Edited on August 1, 2012 at 2:47 PM. Reason : a]

8/1/2012 2:45:59 PM

Quote :

"$350 entry. 6 points for a rushing TD is silly. Fantasy football is more fun when the league reflects reality. A one yard TD dive specialist is not a more valuable player than the guy getting 20 carries for 100 yards. It wasn't such a big deal until 5-6 years ago when the entire league started moving away from one featured back. You have to adapt your fantasy league to changes in the NFL or your fantasy league becomes some perversion of real football where everyone starts goaline backs. "

All he really wanted us to read.

8/1/2012 2:47:06 PM

face you played fantasy football in the late 80s?

8/1/2012 2:49:45 PM

no, first year was 1996. But i know a bit about the history of the game.

Before customized scoring systems it was 6 points per TD and 3 points if you went over 100 yards rushing/receiving or 300 yards passing.

I know it sounds crazy now, but even passing TD's were worth 6 points. Fortunately, passing TD totals were much lower back then so it wasn't as bad as it sounds now. Passing TD's weren't changed to 4 points (i know, i know a few people used 3 points but they weren't in the majority) until the mid 90's around the same time people started awarding points for each 25 yards passing and 10 yards rushing/receiving.

Once the internet came into play it allowed for customized scoring options so scoring systems are all over the board. No serious league gives 6 points for a passing TD anymore, but there are several who still give 6 points for rushing TD's, despite the obvious flaws in that system.

[Edited on August 1, 2012 at 2:54 PM. Reason : a]

8/1/2012 2:53:35 PM

I did. Used to scour the box scores in the N&O on Monday mornings like a true sports geek.

8/1/2012 2:54:11 PM

Maybe the NFL will catch up with fantasy football someday and change their scoring system to 3 points per rushing TD

That would really promote passing in the red zone since a rushing TD would be worth the same amount of points as a field goal

8/1/2012 2:56:03 PM

Quote :

"where everyone starts goaline backs."

i would like to see someone who has actually won a league by doing this

8/1/2012 3:02:26 PM

Quote :

"You don't really think the 1 yard TD is more valuable than the 60 yards gained proceeding it, do you?"

No, I think they're worth pretty much the same, which is reflected by each being worth 6 points. I think Yahoo's old system of 20 yards/point was silly, as 120 yards is clearly more valuable than a touchdown. My biggest beef with the current fantasy landscape is leagues that reward bonuses for long scoring plays or crossing certain yardage thresholds. Completely asinine, as you're already getting the yards and score added to your total. A bonus on top of that makes no sense.

8/1/2012 3:15:11 PM

bonus for long scoring plays makes sense as they are obviously significantly more valuable than a short score.

I've always wanted to be able to give 2 points for TD's under 2 yards since they have minimal value true value and are more of a function of the oline than the RB.


TD's are really quite arbitrary and if you don't realize that you really need to re-think how much you know about football. A lot of you would be well served to stop getting all your football knowledge from broadcasters. They are there to promote commercials, "stars", and the network's fall lineup. Half don't understand what they are watching and the other half just say whatever comes to mind even if the statistics completely disagree.

[Edited on August 1, 2012 at 3:17 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on August 1, 2012 at 3:19 PM. Reason : a]

8/1/2012 3:17:38 PM

Their value over a short score is reflected in the increased points you get for yards accumulated. A 50 yard touchdown catch is clearly more valuable than a 30 yard catch, and thus the increase in points awarded from 9 to 11. By giving a bonus for the longer score, you're essentially creating points out of thin air, as the accrued value of the yards leading to that score gets multiplied for no other reason than than to manifest some kind of artificial bonus to someone who decides a 50 yard score is worth double that of one that went only 49 yards.

8/1/2012 3:22:37 PM

message_topic.aspx?topic=629287

8/1/2012 3:24:05 PM

It is all fucking relative. You play your fantasy league and draft your team based on the rules that are set. It makes no difference how they are scored, it is a game and you use the rules to play to the best of your ability.

you guys are arguing over a moot point.

8/1/2012 3:31:40 PM

Quote :

"TD's are really quite arbitrary and if you don't realize that you really need to re-think how much you know about football. A lot of you would be well served to stop getting all your football knowledge from broadcasters. They are there to promote commercials, "stars", and the network's fall lineup. Half don't understand what they are watching and the other half just say whatever comes to mind even if the statistics completely disagree. "

do you type with your eyes closed?

8/1/2012 3:38:12 PM

^ coming from the least knowledgeable sports poster on this board? By a wide margin i might add.


Long TD's have a huge amount of value. Scoring a 60 yard TD is more valuable than a 59 yard yard run that ends at the 10 yard line and a subsequent 1 yard TD, obviously.

8/1/2012 3:46:32 PM

This fantasy football thread is awesome.

8/1/2012 4:06:19 PM

Apples to apples, rally. The question is whether an X yard touchdown is worth significantly more than an X-1 yard touchdown, which it most certainly is not.

8/1/2012 4:09:14 PM

i play in a rotisserie league where you only get points for scores of 50+ yards and passing TDs are worth 1 point. it really cuts out a lot of the riff raff and makes it closer to the real game of football, where the object of the game is to score more long TDs over the course of a season than every other team.

8/1/2012 4:12:01 PM

that's true. I see your roast beef with the extra points for a 40 yard td but not a 39 yard td.

That's why i think we're all in agreement the 2 yard TD's should be worth a lot less than 10+ yard TD's.

8/1/2012 4:12:57 PM

a ball carrier has a lot more room to operate from 10+ yards out than they do at the goal line

my league rewards more points to inside runs than tosses and sweeps since the ball carrier has to deal with more defensive linemen

8/1/2012 4:15:28 PM

That only enhances rally's point. The general school of thought is that the first 3-4 yards of any run are mainly based on how the O-line blocks, while the yards after that are a product of the RB's skills in space. There's really no way in fantasy to get that granular with respect to yards 'earned', so the default 10 yards/point and 6 points/TD has become the norm.

[Edited on August 1, 2012 at 4:18 PM. Reason : x]

8/1/2012 4:17:45 PM

One solution is to award negative points for each carry but make yards worth slightly more.

Each carry should have a negative value equal to ~2 yards. That way the RB is not being rewarded for the first 2 yards.

This makes guys like Eddie George who was terrible his last few years in Tennessee but still valuable in fantasy because he got 31 carries for 90 yards reflect closer to their true value.


For receivers one way to have their value more in line with their true value is to award points for first downs. Obviously a 10 yard reception on 3rd and 12 has much less value than a 6 yard completion on 3rd and 5. Receptions should not be worth a full point (we've settled on a half point for now) as it gives way too much reward to dump off artists and takes away from truly valuable down field receivers like Mike Wallace.

[Edited on August 1, 2012 at 4:27 PM. Reason : a]

8/1/2012 4:25:01 PM

Quote :

"Each carry should have a negative value equal to ~2 yards. That way the RB is not being rewarded for the first 2 yards. This makes guys like Eddie George who was terrible his last few years in Tennessee but still valuable in fantasy because he got 31 carries for 90 yards reflect closer to their true value."

\

I like that idea, may bring it up in my league

8/1/2012 4:38:41 PM

i've seen leagues that give negative points or negative fractional points for rushing attempts and passing attempts

i've also seen baseball leagues with negative points for plate appearances or innings pitched

as long as the positive points you get from BB/HBP/H or ERA/WHIP/Outs is greater it can work out

but too much micromanagement imo

8/1/2012 5:06:24 PM

Good point, Tree. We should ignore changes that make the game more fair and relevant to preserve the sanctity of the league for those who have trouble calculating such basic tenants as catch rate and yards per carry.

8/1/2012 5:08:44 PM

i like to be able to see "87 rushing yards and 1 TD" and be able to immediately calculate "14.7 fantasy points" without worrying about rushing attempts

theres always going to be stuff thats not fair in fantasy football, or fantasy sports

your QB throws a pass on the numbers and the wide open receiver fucks up and drops it, does your QB deserve to get negative points for a passing attempt?

[Edited on August 1, 2012 at 5:15 PM. Reason : attempt not completion]

8/1/2012 5:13:35 PM

Simple rules for simple people

8/1/2012 5:20:24 PM

its fantasy football, not differential equations

if you want to make fantasy football "more realistic" add offensive linemen to the mix

until you do that, you're playing the same make-believe bullshit as the rest of us

8/1/2012 5:23:34 PM

You don't have to do the carries suggestion. The main idea is that its stupid to watch 9 hours of football hoping the rest of the team can get down the field just so your guy can fall into the end zone from the half yard line. Limiting rushing td points is necessary to make the game fun to play. Otherwise its more fun to shoot dice than gamble on goalline backs

8/1/2012 6:58:21 PM

do you play in leagues where people play Michael Bush as their RB1 or something? it just seems like what you're describing doesn't happen in most leagues

8/1/2012 7:10:48 PM

Quote :

"The main idea is that its stupid to watch 9 hours of football hoping the rest of the team can get down the field just so your guy can fall into the end zone from the half yard line"

people actually do this? i watch football because it's fucking entertaining

8/1/2012 7:13:09 PM