Quote :

""

^
LOL!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IY8o0DgHHgk&t=60s

Quote :

"nobody here has ever claimed to be 100% certain about everything?"

Quote :

"if I wasn’t sure that I was right about something, I wouldn’t post about it. it really is as simple as that."

LOL!

10/16/2026 6:56:21 AM

Quote :

"im just a dummy off to the side that everybody hates together"

Nobody hates you here. I certainly don't. Soldier on, Florida Man!

Quote :

"Tell me I'm funny and nice and worth validation pls"

Thank you for classifying me in a "normal" group. Might be a first! I'm trying so hard to give the perception of a fully functional adult human.

10/16/2026 7:03:54 AM

Quote :

""nobody here has ever claimed to be 100% certain about everything?""

Quote :

"if I wasn’t sure that I was right about something, I wouldn’t post about it."

in tgl's defense, he's not sure about every thing. he's sure about some things.

Quote :

" Nobody hates you here. I certainly don't."

agreed.

Quote :

"See, this seems like something most people on here would agree with. But I wouldn't have seen it had I not clicked on a bunch of twitter links, which I don't necessarily come to TWW to do."

understandable. i suppose i ought to stop bothering with that practice here.

10/16/2026 7:59:03 AM

glad you were able to pick up on that

10/16/2026 8:32:21 AM

Quote :

"in tgl's defense, he's not sure about every thing. he's sure about some things."

So he's only sure about everything he posts. So only sure about 100% of the side of him that any of us gets to experience. It's exactly the same effect.

He is probably 80-90% ideologically aligned with 80-90% of the posters that remain in the Soap Box, and yet he's the only one who posts like he does, with absolutism and utter condescension if not contempt. That's just my feeling from a decade of reading his stuff, much of which I'd probably otherwise agree with, save a few issues.

Quote :

"understandable. i suppose i ought to stop bothering with that practice here."

I am purposely not on the Twitters. Is it more work to copy and paste or to restate your relevant thoughts than to link externally through hrefs? While clicking links is always voluntary, I don't particularly enjoy coming to TWW to be constantly directed away from TWW (especially to something that requires an account to view any commentary).

I'm not mad, though.

10/16/2026 8:35:27 AM

I have contempt for those who are ok with attacks on human rights

10/16/2026 8:51:38 AM

Probably no one here would disagree with that statement. The issue lies with how rights are defined and constraints are in place and who writes the definitions.

10/16/2026 8:55:10 AM

says the guy who regularly uses slurs and defends the federal governments attack on its citizens and immigrants

another thing that I have contempt for

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 9:00 AM. Reason : .]

10/16/2026 8:59:23 AM

The issue lies with how the things you have contempt for are defined

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 9:10 AM. Reason : and if you have incorrect definitions, you unjustly subject others to your contempt. this is immoral]

10/16/2026 9:09:49 AM

Who else out there is giving us SpaceX powered sports cars???

10/16/2026 9:42:33 AM

Are they giving them away?!

10/16/2026 9:47:23 AM

Slurs is a good one. We could talk about using them hatefully, as a troll to overly sensitive pearl clutching forum posters, or as a good ribbing to your gay friend that leaves you at the bar when he finds a hot guy.

I define them only as the first case and recognize the nuance in the others. You being unable to see nuance probably see them as equivalent despite intent or social graces.

Additionally, I don't think someone breaking the rule in the first case deserves to lose their job or be debanked. I just wouldn't hang out with them personally.

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 10:44 AM. Reason : A]

10/16/2026 10:42:44 AM

a good example of why I posted the Al-Ghazali video the other day. There's no distinction making with tgl. there is a consistent flattening of meaning and intent of others, a dehumanizing lack of empathy for the mind of the other, and always in the direction that permits and demands the believer to maximally condemn the other and therefore to justify their maximum punishment by the Inquisitors.

And to be less personally antagonistic about it, let me be clear that this is a phenomenon that happens on both the left (bluesky is the vipers nest for this sort of behavior so for the good of your own soul stop hanging out there) and the right. Because it is human nature. We are only human. But it is the path to Totalitarianism.

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 11:14 AM. Reason : i am the warner]

10/16/2026 11:14:23 AM

Quote :

" Mr. Musk, the world's richest person and a Texas resident who has major business interests in the state, sent $158 million in September to a super PAC that immediately flipped that much money to a group backing Mr. Paxton's Senate bid, according to campaign-finance filings released Thursday. The donations from Mr. Musk, collectively some of the biggest ever recorded in American politics, have allowed Mr. Paxton to remain financially competitive even as he is vastly outraised by his Democratic opponent, James Talarico. Republicans in Texas have grown increasingly worried about the race, one of this year's most expensive and high-profile contests, fearful of losing a statewide election in Texas for the first time in more than three decades. "

Good example of why we need to end billionaires and superpacs. Individual donors to Talarico are out raising Paxton by 3:1 but dump the musk pac money in and he can single handedly flood any media market with his intentional lies.

10/16/2026 11:33:15 AM

^^ And I get why he does that with me, as I'm typically deliberately hyperbolic, but as The Coz pointed out he does so with contempt even people he agrees with. Instead of engaging to discover differences and where the disagreement lies he hand waves away into vague statements that dismiss rather than engage and root out where the differences lie.

I care more about the full context, how it's presented and sold than not offending the in group. To TGL that means "defending". My position on ICE is generally, horrible implementation, unwinnable situation. The comparison between someone like Pretti (sp?) defending a woman and the ICE agents kicking and ultimately shooting him looks super bad, is bad. I think the Renee Good one was more nuanced legally. I can empathize with someone trying to be an ICE agent and being in that environment and I understand how when you think you are literally defending blue hairs from the gas chambers that would make you not side with them at all. I can see both points even if I think someone in ICE or Renee Good were totally incompetent. I feel sorry for both of them.

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 11:46 AM. Reason : a]

10/16/2026 11:42:49 AM

Quote :

"Slurs is a good one. We could talk about using them hatefully, as a troll to overly sensitive pearl clutching forum posters, or as a good ribbing to your gay friend that leaves you at the bar when he finds a hot guy."

I used to do the latter two when I was an edgelord college kid. As I've matured i look back and cringe bc I realize that, to anyone outside my own brain, it's very hard to differentiate between 2/3 and 1. Even for 3 I would wonder, is my friend laughing along so they wont get accused of being "overly sensitive pearl clutching" but inside it hurts, even a little. I decided the best way to avoid that is to stop using the slurs.

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 12:15 PM. Reason : Did it work]

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 12:16 PM. Reason : Now? ]

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 12:17 PM. Reason : Hmmm]

Quote :

"bluesky is the vipers nest for this sort of behavior so for the good of your own soul stop hanging out there"

Not sure I understand believing that you can avoid the Viper's nest of horrible people on Twitter but don't believe you can do the same on Blue Sky.

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 12:19 PM. Reason : E]

10/16/2026 12:12:36 PM

Now what happens when your moral rule is violated? Should the punishment be consistent for say a VP using the aforementioned word repeated vs some new college hire heard making the comment to his friend in what he thinks is a private office?

What about someone here posting in college 15 years ago, like that thread? Should he lose his job and be on the street? People love to witch hunt and even though he may have atoned, we can't resist a good witch burning. The left seemed to treat all cases equivalent. A low level worker caught doing something was burned just as hard a VP with real control/power. There was no proportionality in 2020.

Obviously the best choice is not to do it from a safety standpoint, but there are clear cases where the 3rd is ok. Like when a former TWWr bragged for the 30th time this week about his body fat percentage, I said, "Jesus you vain queen, no one cares you are 8% body fat, go suck a dick". But I've known him for 28 years and I was the first person he was out to. Would never do that to Frosh.

10/16/2026 12:36:24 PM

That is a very strange response to a post explaining my own choice for my own behavior. Where in my post did I say it was a moral rule I press on others?

Quote :

"Obviously the best choice is not to do it from a safety standpoint, but there are clear cases where the 3rd is ok."

"ok" and "worth it" seems like a wide gap. Your friend is probably completely OK with it, but short of being in their brain, you can never be sure. FOR ME, i would rather make the tiniest miniscule sacrifice of not doing it anymore to gain the piece of mind, but that's me.

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 12:51 PM. Reason : E]

10/16/2026 12:46:50 PM

I had two parts:

Slurs and what should happen to people who use them. I was asking what you think should happen, because one of the primary issues with TGL (and 2020 woke) that got everyone like me all pissy enough to vote for Trump is:

- they assume the different versions are somehow equivalent
- they apply the same punishment whether it's something vile (a vp abusing a subordinate) or a line man making minimum wage

Was just asking, what in your view if you find someone has used a slur should happen?

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 12:51 PM. Reason : a]

10/16/2026 12:49:36 PM

I had no intention to address those topics, I used the quote function to show what I was responding to


Btw, it's already pretty dumb to vote for Trump, but my lord that is a very dumb reason to vote for Trump

10/16/2026 12:55:19 PM

Society needs more pathways for repentance, forgiveness and atonement, with more emphasis on the atonement the higher up you are (literally the basis of the concept behind many world religions so nothing new just something easily forgotten )

10/16/2026 12:56:11 PM

Quote :

"Not sure I understand believing that you can avoid the Viper's nest of horrible people on Twitter but don't believe you can do the same on Blue Sky."

As I've said (link link link) twitter has its fair share of problems, both before and after Elon. There's a couple reasons imo why twitter is still a better social network than bluesky. The main being that bluesky's user base originated almost entirely as an exodus from twitter of Elon haters. As mainstream as that pov has become, the distribution of political opinions on bluesky is very clearly skewed toward fringe left/progressive. And because it's remained relatively small, you get all the self reinforcing effects of echo chambers among a group of people already prone to dysfunction. It's just like when people on the fringe right threw a tantrum about twitter and went off and made Gab so they could all jerk each other off to their awful ideas without anybody challenging them. Twitter is more resistant to those echo chamber effects because it's a much larger user base and has more "normal" people who are there to talk about sports or whatever and haven't been deranged by the culture wars. Big Politics twitter absolutely is infected with lots of garbage, but you can at least still avoid that neighborhood because there's other areas to hang out. So to speak. I suppose that's true on bluesky to some extent as well, but I think the gravitational pull of politics on bluesky is much much more than on twitter. I guess my advice boils down to, no matter what social network you use, it's probably best not to get sucked too deep into the political discourse. you will only find insanity.

[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 1:00 PM. Reason : RIP TSB]

Quote :

"Society needs more pathways for repentance, forgiveness and atonement, with more emphasis on the atonement the higher up you are (literally the basis of the concept behind many world religions so nothing new just something easily forgotten )"

well said, agreed. Grace & Forgiveness was a #YangGang core value and I always thought that was an admirable and wise policy to make explicit in a political campaign.



[Edited on October 16, 2026 at 1:22 PM. Reason : even better - resisting the urge to constantly condemn people is a healthy spiritual pathway we can offer ourselves rather than demanding repentance of others]

10/16/2026 12:59:25 PM

Quote :

"Btw, it's already pretty dumb to vote for Trump, but my lord that is a very dumb reason to vote for Trump"

We've been arguing that this style of moral condemnation alienates people and can produce political backlash even if its dumb. There are numerous instances going back years where you and The Coz both warned him of this.

10/16/2026 1:07:24 PM

I’m pretty sure I’ve never advocated for anyone to be fired over any post on social media

slurs are bad. don’t use them. it isn’t that difficult.

10/16/2026 2:37:31 PM

just now fully catching up

Quote :

" or as a good ribbing to your gay friend that leaves you at the bar when he finds a hot guy."

finding it hard to believe that this is something that you’ve done in the past. if so, what slur did you use, and why?

I’ve got a handful of gay friends, and one thing I know they aren’t fond of is a straight person using the F-word

there’s no such thing as nuance when it comes to using slurs unless you’re a chud who is grasping at straws in an attempt to use them

10/16/2026 4:42:30 PM

Quote :

"if you call people a faggot chud as an insult, you're kindof an asshole."

10/16/2026 4:50:19 PM

are people born chuds?

anyways:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/10/16/musk-approached-trump-slow-down-starlink-help-ukraine/

10/16/2026 5:00:23 PM

Are people born gay?

10/16/2026 6:04:29 PM

^^^
Yikes

10/16/2026 6:08:27 PM

^^ yes, yes they are

10/16/2026 6:13:26 PM

Quote :

"i am the warner"

ISWYDT

Quote :

"Btw, it's already pretty dumb to vote for Trump, but my lord that is a very dumb reason to vote for Trump"

What if he just did it for the LULZ?!

Quote :

"are people born chuds?"

Some are:

10/16/2026 6:31:53 PM

Quote :

"finding it hard to believe that this is something that you’ve done in the past. if so, what slur did you use, and why? I’ve got a handful of gay friends, and one thing I know they aren’t fond of is a straight person using the F-word there’s no such thing as nuance when it comes to using slurs unless you’re a chud who is grasping at straws in an attempt to use them"

The key point is words mean different things in different contexts (social, time), intent matters, and penalties exist for breaking conventions. These things are fluid and change a lot, as evidenced by how people saw faggot when this website was founded and now.

I was roommates with someone sophomore year and as we were finding another place he came out to me. So ended up living with my girlfriend and two gay dudes. Separately my suitemate from freshmen year and a guy I knew through hobbies came out as trans and another as regular gay. At one point it was like everyone I knew was gay.

I ended up using a slur in a mean way, which I swore I told the story on TWW, but I don't see it. Will post in the thread so TGL can use it.

10/17/2026 6:10:35 AM

Maybe it's just me but I think you're the only one having a discussion about "penalties"

Except for me, i guess, who mentioned that's a really dumb reason to vote for Trump. I would always hear people prpospose that someone voted for Trump "bc they were mad they couldnt say the n word anymore," but yoir post was the first time I've seen someone admit it.

10/17/2026 8:42:57 AM

The penalties question is about moral philosophy: whether intent and context affect culpability, and whether consequences should be proportional.

The broader discussion was about how moral absolutism, contempt, and disproportionate punishment alienate people rather than persuade them, potentially pushing voters toward Trump. I offered my own experience as an example of that backlash. Though as stated that was not my primary motivation there. I do have a bit of a different perspective living through the wokest of woke in corporate California.

Originally TGL dismissed Coz with his platitudes. I was trying to illuminate how people agree on the surface then massively disagree on details.

10/17/2026 9:01:40 AM

Thats def ai lol

10/17/2026 9:46:56 AM

re: "repentance, forgiveness and atonement being the basis of the concept behind many world religions"

i assume people here are familiar with the "wokism as religion" discourse. my sense has been there's something fundamentally incorrect or maybe missing the point in that comparison or people tend to use it as a way to insult/mock and that's not really my preferred style bc i'm not an asshole, so I don't invoke it much, but I think it's hard to ignore the parallels and therefore it can be a useful analogy.

i didn't see/hear about this when it came out 2 weeks ago, but he talks about wokism basically being Old Testament mentality, which doesn't work so we had to come up with the New Testament, and people have forgotten those lessons. people like tgl remind me of like Southern Baptist church ladies. they're in good social standing with the community, and they don't want to lose that and/or they actually believe the lies they've been told, so they end up going around enforcing the orthodoxy and being mean and self-righteous to everybody else who doesn't submit to the church rules as a way to pump up their social standing points.



[Edited on October 17, 2026 at 10:34 AM. Reason : not saying we should all stop being woke and go back to church. nietzsche was still right, we just haven't yet found a good enough replacement philosophy that creates stable enough individuals and societies to make up for religion's more load bearing properties]

[Edited on October 17, 2026 at 10:44 AM. Reason : ok one link to get us back on topic]

10/17/2026 10:30:17 AM

I never took the wokism as religion as a mocking thing, just comparing it. Yarvin called it in 2007 in the writings about Ultra Calvinism drawing a line from 1600s Protestantism to reform movements, noting both started in New England. There is a bunch of academic stuff in the space talking about the ideas of politics and religion all throughout the 1900s. Strong agree though. Something ends up filling the vacuum and those things are not necessarily battle tested. They have bugs.

[Edited on October 17, 2026 at 11:39 AM. Reason : A]

10/17/2026 11:37:57 AM

Quote :

" people like tgl remind me of like Southern Baptist church ladies. they're in good social standing with the community, and they don't want to lose that and/or they actually believe the lies they've been told, so they end up going around enforcing the orthodoxy and being mean and self-righteous to everybody else who doesn't submit to the church rules as a way to pump up their social standing points."

you both act like I walk around with a bullhorn shaming people/trying to get them in trouble

all I’ve said is slurs are bad

10/17/2026 11:47:01 AM

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/politics-news/musk-movie-tiktok-banned-theaters-showtimes-1236734308/

Quote :

" TikTok “Permanently Suspends” the ‘Musk’ Film Account, Raising Suppression Fears (Exclusive) Move comes just as Alex Gibney doc film expands to nearly 500 screens. Distributor Bleecker Street says it is appealing."

10/17/2026 1:35:00 PM

The correct way for him to handle this situation is to livestream himself watching the film and "debunk" anything he claims is incorrect or needs more context while watching it

[Edited on October 17, 2026 at 1:47 PM. Reason : you can manufacture a streisand effect]

10/17/2026 1:46:35 PM

It's weird to still be talking about wokism when, imho, the the current Administration, and right-wing in general, has been far more anti-free speech than the previous administration ever was

Also is "don't use slurs" even 'woke'? I'm on tgl's side here, it kinda seems like the bare minimum of normal behavior

10/17/2026 2:04:21 PM

since this is still going on on this page, here’s my theory on why the two of you are the way you are when it comes to me, since for whatever reason I’m like catnip for some of you:

it’s very clear that the two of you spend time on what we’ll call “Red Pilled” spaces on the internet. you’ve decided to make me the avatar of the “hysterical woke lefty” because I’ve advocated for treating people fairly and called out obvious bigotry in the past. it’s very funny, because I’m one of the least hysterical people you’d ever meet, and everyone who knows me would back that up. for years I’ve asked for some of you to provide posts of mine that you’d call hysterical, and you’ve never been able to provide any. you all trip over yourselves in an attempt to excuse bigotry, when all I’ve ever said is bigotry is bad.

since there has been a decade+ movement on the right to demonize the LGBTQ, and specifically, the Trans community,
a decision has been made that they’re the last group that you feel safe enough (online, of course) to attack. there is nothing you could ever post, no matter the size of the block of text, that would make it ok, no matter how badly you wish it could.

to sum it up plainly, this entire time, I’ve simply posted some version of “leave them alone. it’s hard enough to just exist at times”, and you’ve turned that into me being hysterical about it

10/17/2026 2:10:05 PM

I'm also curious re chris rock
- which of his "canceled" friends has he forgiven
- what did they do
- what consequences did they face
- if true bad behavior, what contrition have they shown
- what does his personal forgiveness add to the overall context

10/17/2026 2:34:57 PM

[Edited on October 17, 2026 at 2:35 PM. Reason : Flood control grink]

10/17/2026 2:34:57 PM

^^
Does it matter?

What I’ve seen happen specifically over the last 3-5 ish years is academics write very detailed, sourced, calculated and hedged research about sociological issues on crime/race/gender/etc and then it percolates its way into TikTok and various influencer arenas where it gets churned out to the masses as outrage over various things. Managing mob mentality but also pushing data driven policy is a continuous chore

10/17/2026 3:43:45 PM

Yes bc the video is being used as argument of "woke is bad" so provide real examples

10/17/2026 4:43:01 PM

so this is a good example of what I periodically try to point to as a common problem with left-leaning discourse (don't take it personally rwoody i'm gonna be a little over the top to try to land the point i still love you very much uwu)

Quote :

"a good example of why I posted the Al-Ghazali video the other day. There's no distinction making with tgl. there is a consistent flattening of meaning and intent of others"

or

Quote :

"don't make me tap the sign [Edited on November 26, 2025 at 11:29 AM. Reason : the world is complicated. 1 dimensional thinking is not enough to make sense of it. even 2 isn't nearly enough but can we at least master that realm and work our way back up to reality]"

let's look at what was actually said. i'm going to bold anything "woke is bad" and underline anything "woke is good"

Quote :

"I'm not religious, but I'm, you know, I'm a Christian, and God forgives. That's what it's all about. The problem with, you know, quote-unquote "wokeness" (and before he even says ANYTHING, he already has to get his disclaimers in cus he knows y'all gonna be triggered af already) and don't get me wrong, it is great that marginalized people have a voice. It is great to advocate for anybody that feels marginalized. This is great. But the problem with wokeness is we're in the Old Testament right now, okay? And the Old Testament has no forgiveness. The Old Testament didn't work, so they had to write a remix called the New Testament. There's been this discussion lately about how the woke 1.0 era, which I think refers to sort of the immediate post-George Floyd era, was, you know, crazy. People say, you know, woke 1.0 was crazy, and like, you know, AOC distancing herself from that and other Democratic politicians doing the same thing. And I just wonder, do you see that moment in time as just like, that was just a crazy moment in time, or was there anything redeeming about it? (how could you even suggest such a thing!?) I think I just answered it, you know? Again, it's great to help those that need help. That is amazing. You know, we need more of that. The problem is when you institutionalize it. You know, that's the problem. You know, so my half a joke: the Salem witch hunts... I'm sure, you know, the first three witches they caught were actually fucking witches. But then you open up a witch office, and now you gotta start lying. Now you gotta fucking make shit up because you got overhead. You have to justify paying the witch hunters. Yeah, you gotta justify the witch hunters' fucking pensions and shit. So yeah, man, it's all good. I'm glad that all of this stuff happened. It needed to happen, you know. And because it happened, maybe I've heard some voices that I probably wouldn't have heard otherwise."

so basically we have
- an introduction to a claim that there might be a problem with wokeness
- an immediate assurance that there's good stuff about wokeness too
- the problem with wokeness is there's no forgiveness
- so does that mean wokeness is unredeemable? you're saying wokeness is actually bad??
- nope, there's good stuff in wokeness. amazing stuff in wokeness. more of that is good
- but also, people started making false accusations and it became people's source of income or life purpose to find people (I just want to find 11,780 bigots) to make accusations against and now suddenly you can't question the accusers (and i even softened it with an absurd joke don't kill me)
- but don't worry i'm not saying woke was so bad that it would have been better if it had never happened

but the typical reaction to these oh so gentle suggestions of possible woke excess is it all gets flattened to "so you're saying woke is bad" and "you must have been red-pilled" and "the condemned were surely guilty of the transgressions of which they were accused, they probably weren't even sufficiently punished or repentant anyways, and does it even matter if they were. by their very nature which they have proven themselves, they deserve the eternal condemnation which we have righteously delivered, amen."

and normal people saw all this stuff happening over and over and over again, but it's mostly recognition at like a subconscious level. they don't want to think too deeply about the phenomenon, how to precisely articulate it, or stick their neck out to try to explain what they see to others, let alone persuade anybody or decide what should be done about it. because it's usually not worth the effort to accurately parse what the accused ACTUALLY say and did and how reasonable the woke responses might have been, and so most people just don't bother saying anything lest the church ladies lose their god damn minds again and end up calling you a bigot nazi witch too. and so the "bad" parts of wokism fester and fester and fester until it burns down any chance of Democrats beating Trump in 2024. /curb your enthusiasm music

[Edited on October 17, 2026 at 6:47 PM. Reason : Matthew 7:1–5 John 8:7-11 Luke 6:37 Luke 18:9–14 Romans 2:1 Romans 14:10–13 amirite]

10/17/2026 6:30:39 PM

Fair enough, "woke is bad" was an absolute that you were not arguing (although I suspect you think it is net bad), I still think the answers to my question would help show me whether Rock is a doing a good job showing "there might be a problem with wokeness" (I'm sure there is, everything has problems, we're only human...), but are his comments proof?

Quote :

"the problem with wokeness is there's no forgiveness"

This also feels like a false absolute


I also think you've been claiming for awhile that Woke ism led to Trump 2024, when everything I've read leads me to believe it's economy 95% anf 5% other reasons.

I clicked on the link, can't figure out what that has to do with the discussion at all

10/17/2026 7:27:09 PM

Quote :

"the problem with wokeness is there's no forgiveness"

Cause you must obey!

10/17/2026 7:30:35 PM

Back to...

10/17/2026 7:58:10 PM