Discuss.

How big is it in practical terms (not simply dollar amounts)?

How problematic is it?

10/20/2006 10:33:15 PM

what is the actual amount. i havent heard a figure in a while

10/20/2006 10:53:18 PM

paging LoneSnark

10/20/2006 11:05:43 PM

Quote :

"The federal budget deficit, helped by a gusher of tax revenues, fell to $247.7 billion in 2006, the smallest amount of red ink in four years. Both spending and tax revenues climbed to all-time highs in 2006. The sharp narrowing of the deficit reflected the fact that revenues climbed by 11.7 percent, outpacing the 7.3 percent increase in spending."

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/735487.html
http://bea.gov/bea/dn/home/gdp.htm
So, all in all, taking a low-balled 2006 GDP figure of 13,197.3 billion dollars, the current deficit is running about 1.877% of GDP. In proportion to the U.S. economy this is a very responsible deficit (the national GDP is growing almost twice this fast, somewhere north of 3%).

In other words, economic prosperity cures all ails (at least for awhile).

10/20/2006 11:29:57 PM

I think he meant the National Debt as in the 8.5 trillion we owe.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

10/20/2006 11:47:57 PM

^ Oh, right, duh.

Well, it sounds bad to say, but if you contain the deficit then you have contained the debt. While it would be good to pay some of it off at least we are making it easier for future generations to do so (GDP growth and inflation are making the debt appear smaller every year).

10/21/2006 12:03:32 AM

it'll never get paid off so why worry about it?

10/21/2006 9:53:14 AM

Our debt is going to hurt us with North Korea if we ever have to pressure China to get their support.

10/21/2006 10:27:50 AM

^lol, It must be fun to be able to just make those kinds of economic assertions without having to be tied down to proof or soundness.

10/21/2006 12:04:02 PM

its a problem that lots of people have written about. heres the first google link:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200510u/nj_schneider_2005-10-25

10/21/2006 12:14:19 PM

Quote :

"Our debt is going to hurt us with North Korea if we ever have to pressure China to get their support."

how?

10/21/2006 12:16:55 PM

haha "hey china, you better do what we say or we are going to stop borrowing so much money from you"

10/21/2006 12:21:36 PM

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/by/william_schneider

This guy has great record of writing earth-shattering economic analysis, lol

BTW, please 2 not cite editorials.

10/21/2006 12:38:33 PM

Quote :

"haha "hey china, you better do what we say or we are going to stop borrowing so much money from you""

Don't forget that what you see is "us borrowing money from them" is only the flip side of the coin to the trade deficit. What that means is that if they stopped buying our bonds, it would mean that we, at the same time, stop having such a large trade deficit.

If you don't see how this works, please take EC 348 or EC 448/449
or please go learn the economics of international finance. Then we can chat about how horrible the deficit is.

10/21/2006 12:42:29 PM

debt

10/21/2006 12:47:46 PM

legalize and tax it

10/22/2006 4:43:41 PM

Quote :

"Don't forget that what you see is "us borrowing money from them" is only the flip side of the coin to the trade deficit. What that means is that if they stopped buying our bonds, it would mean that we, at the same time, stop having such a large trade deficit."

yeah, i'm not too worried about the trade deficit with China, for that very reason. in the end, they pour enough money into our securities markets that we end up coming out ahead on the deal.

10/22/2006 7:37:34 PM

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466

10/22/2006 8:06:23 PM

If the Chinese threaten to dump our debt that would cause a drastic currency devaluation, rendering all those hard-earned T-Bills worthless to the Chinese. I suspect we don't have much to fear from it for this reason.

Especially when you realize why the Chinese government is creating the imbalance: They want reserves to stave off financial crises in the future. You see, a U.S. dollar crisis is easy for China to weather, they can print yuan and rescue the dollar will. However, if the yuan began collapsing China is unable to print dollars, it cannot ensure help from the IMF or the US, so it's only hope is to have a large stash of dollars readily available to fix any such eventuality.

In my opinion, however, this is in error. China is still operating under the international financial model of a small country such as Korea or Hong Kong, where wild currency fluctuation is a real threat. However, a large diverse economy such as the U.S. or China do not face such worries because sufficient domestic activity exists to swamp any international disturbances.

[Edited on October 22, 2006 at 11:46 PM. Reason : .,.]

10/22/2006 11:34:58 PM

In on page 1

How are we ever going to pay this off?

4/17/2026 3:45:55 AM

Who cares brother, fiscal conservatism is magically dead now. We are going for a 1.5 trillion dollar defense budget!

4/17/2026 7:50:34 AM

At this point we don't. You guys rioted and burned down car dealerships when someone tried so cutting spending is out. Even cutting spending seems to not put a dent.

- We can conquer a nation and use the resources to pay it off (hahah Greenland and Iran)
- We can keep inflating the currency to pay for defense until the civil unrest allows China or a serious country to take over
- Hope robots get us to post scarcity

I figured 10 or so trillion ago the unrest would have started. The level of printing and debt increases that happened during 2008, through the 2010s and then Covid just dwarfed all of it. If you asked 2006 duke what happens if we add 7 times more dollars into the economy and keep wages the same? Probably would have been like total social collapse.

Fiscal conservatism died with GW Bush. Elon and some of the current admin, Massie and Paul are the only ones paying it lip service. Trump has to be the worst since he presided over the start of Covid and now does this other extra war shit.





[Edited on April 17, 2026 at 8:00 AM. Reason : -]

4/17/2026 7:56:27 AM

Let's make something clear here. The goal of DOGE was never to cut spending. It was to gut agencies in order to aggressively deregulate, privatize services, consolidate executive power, and potentially most importantly create a centralized national database. Nobody "burned down a car dealership" because someone was trying to reduce the national debt.

4/17/2026 9:40:20 AM

If the goal was to reduce the debt, they sure took a strange approach to it. If I want to reduce my personal debt, I trade my car payment for a beater I can afford, not drive all over town trying to save a nickel a gallon on gas.

4/17/2026 10:39:44 AM

https://wherethefuckdidmytaxesgo.com/

4/17/2026 11:00:16 AM

All we gotta do is eliminate Social Security, and we're golden.

We can declare war on EVERYONE!

4/17/2026 11:43:53 AM

And default on the debt! That saves the most. Think of the war we could do then. $3 trillion defense budget! Could get it over $4 trillion if we stop paying nurses to wash obese boomers and paying for expense treatments for lifestyle diseases.

[Edited on April 17, 2026 at 11:50 AM. Reason : A]

4/17/2026 11:48:58 AM

^^^Just curious.....was that link somehow intended as a defense of DOGE?? The timing of your post makes it look that way to me, but......I see no connection, if so.

I gotta ask, because AI does give odd responses some times, I've noticed.

[Edited on April 17, 2026 at 12:16 PM. Reason : ^]

4/17/2026 12:16:12 PM

Quote :

"You guys rioted and burned down car dealerships when someone tried so cutting spending is out. Even cutting spending seems to not put a dent."

FOH man

4/17/2026 12:19:09 PM

Me half ass trolling phill the other day

4/17/2026 12:26:05 PM

^^^ no. Just generally that the debt interest payments eclipse defense and washing obese boomers is most of spending. We are fucked.

I quote and label slop if it's AI.

4/17/2026 1:38:06 PM

Hey, I wanna see how much Elon contributed. What number should I type in that calculator?

4/17/2026 5:03:00 PM

Whatever it is this is actual footage of the government putting it to use



[Edited on April 17, 2026 at 5:37 PM. Reason : A]

4/17/2026 5:36:25 PM

Quote :

" Trump, IRS in talks to settle US president's $10 billion lawsuit "

https://www.cnn.com/2026/04/17/politics/trump-irs-treasury-lawsuit

Trump has made billions in crypto schemes. Given billions in contracts to companies associated with his kids and the kushners. Now he’s planning to take billions directly from taxpayers.

4/18/2026 11:03:29 AM

fOr ThUh LiBrArY! . . .

4/18/2026 11:16:06 AM

Quote :

"At this point we don't. You guys rioted and burned down car dealerships when someone tried so cutting spending is out. Even cutting spending seems to not put a dent."

That's some quality deflection there. A couple car dealerships burned down so now we need a $1 trillion dollar defense budget, and another $1.5 trillion dollars next year. Got it.

4/19/2026 2:05:14 PM

I think he'd argue thats not what he voted for when he voted for Trump(1.5T etc)

4/19/2026 2:08:44 PM

^

Yeah I have TDS like you guys. I identify it as Tee DeeZ!

4/19/2026 2:36:09 PM

BTTT

Using https://wherethefuckdidmytaxesgo.com/ mentioned above:





If things hold as is, the interest payment will be more than half off all federal spending. I uniformly deducted proportional amounts from the other categories. In reality they'd likely keep military spending constant and print even more/take away from other categories. This would drastically reduce the real value of other services (various stakeholders getting that government cheese). Would expect a significant portion of the population having to turn to subsitance farming.

4/19/2026 2:56:48 PM

Well, why do you think Trump wants puppets installed at the Fed to set low interest rates so he can kick the can to the next guy?

4/19/2026 3:45:52 PM

It's almost like Trump is some expert at bankruptcies or something

4/19/2026 4:33:07 PM

He has a lot of experience.

Not that Phill is concerned. . .

4/19/2026 4:49:41 PM