Guiliani, the new Kanye?

Rudy Giuliani: 'Barack Obama does not love America'
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/19/rudy-giuliani-barack-obama-does-not-love-america

2/19/2015 9:16:17 PM

i agree

rudy and kanye are both fucking idiots

nobody should listen to them

2/19/2015 9:47:18 PM

This pretty much destroyed it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/wayne-barrett-rudy-giuliani-love-article-1.2122253

2/20/2015 10:05:19 AM

He just won the South

2/20/2015 11:36:44 AM

Him saying this and not apologized is setting very dangerous precedent.

2/21/2015 2:46:02 PM

Maybe he'll fade into obscurity like Palin has been recently.

2/21/2015 2:58:06 PM

3pm EST... hmm.

Maybe when BanjoMan sobers up he can tell us which precedent that is?

2/21/2015 3:02:47 PM

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/darrell-issa-we-should-thank-giuliani-for-making-us-safer-by-saying-obama-doesnt-love-america/

Lol...

2/22/2015 7:41:14 PM

https://archive.is/0fRUW

'It looks like this big piece of rock that just landed here out of nowhere in what used to be a really nice landscape of trees and flowers,' Ken Woodard, 39, an attorney and father of six who grew up in the area told Daily Mail. 'It's a monstrosity.
'It's over budget, it's taking way too long to finish and it's going to drive up prices and bring headaches and problems for everyone who lives here.
'It feels like a washing away of the neighborhood and culture that used to be here.'

8/19/2025 6:21:36 AM

Thanks, Obama!

8/19/2025 7:24:54 AM

the link is dead but is it about the obama presidential library?

8/19/2025 10:15:41 AM

The link is not dead, and yes, it's about the library.

8/19/2025 10:16:34 AM

My lived experience was a dead link

I bet It’ll be nice when it’s done

8/19/2025 11:03:00 AM

Still? Maybe your employer blocks archive.org links like mine since this is viewed by some as a way to potentially circumvent intentionally restricted content. So I just come home and access the same thing.

8/19/2025 12:06:00 PM

one of my biggest pet peeves is people using therapy/psychology-talk

8/19/2025 1:08:46 PM

I assume we agree, but can you give a specific topical example of what you would classify as such?

8/19/2025 1:42:15 PM

“lived experience”

just say, “the link didn’t work for me”, man

8/19/2025 1:47:19 PM

Thats social Justice talk not therapy talk

8/19/2025 2:48:48 PM

https://www.betterhelp.com/mental-health/disorders-conditions/lived-experience/

8/19/2025 2:55:10 PM

brought to you by the same people who call everything racism, white supremacy, oppression, colonialism, apartheid, etc you know where i'm going with this stop being so annoyingly and completely wrong about so much

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 3:00 PM. Reason : return to the pure and simple liberalism of your forefathers before it's too late]

8/19/2025 2:58:01 PM

LOL!

8/19/2025 3:10:24 PM

would like to make clear that I do not co-sign ^^

8/19/2025 3:27:05 PM

that's bc you're complicit

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 3:29 PM. Reason : barack cosigns it though don't make me post a YouTube video of it]

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 3:29 PM. Reason : there's still time to reform and mend your ways before Trump gets a 3rd term]

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 4:16 PM. Reason : so f*ck it]

8/19/2025 3:28:28 PM

care to explain how I am complicit?

8/19/2025 3:43:19 PM

i've actually been meaning to run some analytics on TSB to help explain this phenomenon but for now you'll just have to go to the source

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 4:02 PM. Reason : just be careful. you know what they say about gazing long into an abyss]

8/19/2025 4:01:27 PM

so you can’t

good to know

8/19/2025 4:07:20 PM

it's more a matter of time prioritization at this point

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 4:13 PM. Reason : inshallah one day all my friends who took woke too far will figure it out. ideally before trump 2028]

8/19/2025 4:07:59 PM

The wokes were wrong about “defund the police” as a slogan but they were right about everything else

We’ll need aggressive anti white-supremacy to inoculate against a future trump if MAGA ever gets forced out.

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 4:32 PM. Reason : ]

8/19/2025 4:30:59 PM

they were right about many things and also wrong (in principle and in rhetoric) about many things too

that's why i keep referring to this



it was "traditional" liberal social justice who were right

the wokes (and i don't even like to use that word bc the og use of the word woke was perfectly fine and has unfortunately been turned into mostly pejorative) went astray when they, well just read the diagram he said it better that I will

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 4:38 PM. Reason : and moron it pains me the most to have to tell you you're complicit too. stfu about white supremacy]

8/19/2025 4:37:43 PM

White supremacy is the core of MAGA. It has the highest predictive accuracy of what trump and his team will do.

Predictive accuracy is what validates a belief system. I think you need to inspect your own predictive accuracy… youve been wrong about Gaza, Elon musk, and particulars of the trump administration by refusing to accept how racism is guiding these things.

8/19/2025 4:46:19 PM

Quote :

"It has the highest predictive accuracy of what trump and his team will do."

can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Quote :

"White supremacy is the core of MAGA."

i do not think it is the CORE. there's an element of it there, i agree. and it's to be taken seriously. but when you paint EVERYTHING as white surpremacist, you're just making it harder to rally a responsible and effective response to it.

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 4:55 PM. Reason : gaza is literally the result of arab/muslim supremacy. y'all too rhetorically captured to realize it]

8/19/2025 4:54:33 PM

8/19/2025 5:46:35 PM

Event / Policy	Centrist / Mainstream Dismissal	Ideological Prediction	Actual Outcome
Ideological Tests in Federal Hiring (2025)	“Merit reform” wouldn’t politicize hiring.	Schedule-F-style loyalty screening would return under new labels.	Agencies required to include essay prompts on advancing administration policies; DEI explicitly barred in hiring.
College Admissions & Race Pressure (2025)	After *SFFA v. Harvard*, compliance would be largely self-policed.	Expect federal pressure, audits, and settlements to force “race-blind” practices beyond the court ruling.	Colleges ordered to show they do not consider race; audits and enforcement steps followed.
Federal Law Enforcement in Minority Areas (2025)	Legal/political barriers would limit deployments.	Authoritarianism scholars: Guard/agents would be used in Black & immigrant neighborhoods under “crime/order” frames.	Police federalization and Guard/Marine deployments reported; aggressive enforcement and intimidation documented.
January 6 Insurrection (2021)	Just rhetoric; institutions would hold.	Analysts of authoritarian movements warned rhetoric would culminate in violence.	Mob stormed the Capitol to block certification; Trump encouraged effort.
Overturning Roe (*Dobbs*) (2022)	Roe was “settled law”; conservatives wouldn’t fully overturn it.	Religious right & feminists: full reversal was the end goal.	Roe v. Wade was overturned (June 24, 2022).
Far-Right Rise in Europe (2010s–2020s)	Far-right parties would remain marginal.	Antifascists & far-right leaders: sustained growth under migration/economic strains.	Far-right parties now govern in some countries and lead polls in others.
Visa/Travel Bans Targeting Non-White Countries (2025)	Security-framed; expected to be diluted.	Equity advocates: a new wave echoing earlier bans, focusing on African/MENA countries.	Proclamation restricted visas from a large set of non-white-majority countries.
USAID Freeze & Shutdown (2025)	Routine budget review; humanitarian aid would continue.	Development experts: wholesale dismantling likely.	Aid frozen by executive action; massive staff and program cuts; functions folded into State.
White South African (Afrikaner) Refugee Priority (2025)	Refugee admissions are impartial; a white-only carve-out impossible.	Advocates warned of a racialized exception framed as “persecution.”	Priority pathway created; initial arrivals processed; prominent faith orgs withdrew in protest.
South Africa: Human-Rights Rhetoric + Visa Shifts (2025)	Standard rights language; limited policy impact.	Critics: rhetoric would be weaponized to justify refugee carve-outs and sanctions.	Aid halted, diplomatic expulsions, and failed summit underscored a confrontational shift.
DHS Speechwriter Echoes “Great Replacement” (reported 2025)	Fringe speech; not reflective of policy.	Observers warned replacement ideology would surface inside official messaging.	Speechwriter publicly amplified replacement-theory content while serving at DHS.
Anti-Immigrant “Crime” Crackdown in D.C. (2025)	Typical federal enforcement posture.	Predicted focus on immigrant-heavy, majority-non-white neighborhoods.	Concentrated arrests and business disruptions reported in Black/immigrant wards.
Repeal of Fair-Housing Rule & Bias Training (2017–2020)	Reform expected, protections largely retained.	Critics: racially regressive rollback consistent with demographic anxiety politics.	Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing rule rolled back; federal race/bias trainings canceled.
Elon Musk’s Anti-DEI Turn (2023–2025)	Business-driven posture; not racialized.	Framing DEI as “anti-white” aligns with replacement-theory narratives.	Musk amplified anti-DEI messaging and positioned DEI as reverse discrimination.
Musk’s “Imported Voters” Narrative (2024–2025)	Base grievance; limited influence.	Echoes replacement-theory claims about demographic engineering.	Claim amplified on X that immigration is used to shift political power.
Musk Pins Great-Replacement Video on X (2025)	Fringe content choice; not consequential.	Normalization of the conspiracy via a mainstream platform.	Replacement-theory video pinned/promoted on Musk’s profile.
Musk Linking Immigrants to Welfare/Social Security Fraud (2025)	Conspiracy rhetoric; unlikely to affect policy.	Plays into narrative of demographic burden and political manipulation.	Public posts tying immigrants to benefits fraud as part of a larger political plot.
Federal Agents Harassing Black Residents (D.C.) (2025)	Federal presence would remain professional and restrained.	Activists anticipated racialized over-policing during federalization.	Videos and reports of harassment surfaced; arrest spikes concentrated in majority-Black wards.
ICE Racial Profiling & Illegal Detentions (2025)	Targeting based on legal status, not race.	Rights groups predicted profiling and unlawful detentions.	Courts and lawsuits detailed wrongful detentions and racially discriminatory targeting.
Tax Cuts and Tariff Burden Shift (2017–2025)	Framed as middle-class tax relief and economic stimulus; tariffs assumed to hurt China, not U.S. workers.	Progressive economists & class-focused ideologues warned tax code rewrites and tariffs would shield wealthy elites (disproportionately white) while shifting costs to working-class and non-white consumers.	2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act reduced corporate/wealthy tax burdens; payroll tax adjustments and lost SALT deductions raised effective burdens for working households. Tariffs passed through as higher consumer prices; later Trump proposals included expanded consumption-style tariffs that disproportionately hurt working-class families while maintaining advantages for high-wealth taxpayers.

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 5:49 PM. Reason : HTML ]

8/19/2025 5:49:02 PM

i was asking about

Quote :

"highest predictive accuracy"

like if you built a neural net approach to trying to predict trump's behavior, what would the weights be. white supremacy (whether genuinely held beliefs by trump or just opportunistic allyship) would definitely be non-zero. but is it the HIGHEST predictive factor? i'm not convinced.

and dear god please don't misinterpret this as any kind of support for trump. i just think it's important we have an accurate model (or as accurate as we can manage with as chaotic/non-deterministic person as trump has proven to be) of what we're dealing with with trump and maga. i think y'all have prioritized ideological/rhetorical opposition to trump rather than actually trying to understand what's going on over there

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 5:55 PM. Reason : .]

8/19/2025 5:54:42 PM

That is what the table shows. These were all incidents where the mainstream or centrist view was they couldn’t happen or wouldn’t happen, while the people talking about white supremacy would have told you what will happen. Trump wanting to turn Gaza into a resort is in this same vein.


Also white people seem to think talking about white supremacy is meant as a personal attack or character issue, but it’s a political issue and government issue. We’ve had this discussion here before… burro liked the term “majority systemic bias” but we’ve learned beating around the bush doesn’t work. And white supremacy is uniquely American. Other countries have their own things, including Muslim supremacy and Jewish supremacy, but our American thing is white supremacy that we need to eradicate together as a democratic society.

[Edited on August 19, 2025 at 6:15 PM. Reason : ]

8/19/2025 6:15:38 PM

Quote :

"stfu about white supremacy"

incredible

8/19/2025 9:03:30 PM

I actually hate white people. We're the worst, TBH. Not my fault if some fragile folks can't be introspective.

8/19/2025 10:41:53 PM

Quote :

" inshallah one day all my friends who took woke too far will figure it out. ideally before trump 2028]"

Am I out of touch?
No, it's all my friends who are wrong.

8/20/2025 9:22:26 AM

exactly



[Edited on August 20, 2025 at 10:09 AM. Reason : Not my fault if some fragile folks can't be introspective]

8/20/2025 10:09:10 AM

How do you think the folks you are arguing with feel about the Democratic party?

How is the Forward Party doing?

[Edited on August 20, 2025 at 10:20 AM. Reason : Also huge leap to directly relate Dem popularity to woke popularity ]

8/20/2025 10:15:17 AM

exactly

some seriously disconnected rationalizations

8/20/2025 10:49:28 AM

So it's actually quite relevant to the OP. The OP was about how on the Democrat party side we're much more willing to be critical of our country, our government, our culture, etc. We see how things can and should be better, and that's a healthy thing. That's how society progresses. On the Republican and conservative side, they are much more focused on the pride they have about the good things about America, and less willing to be critical of our government. In this way they are actually typically the fragile people who can't be introspective about the flaws of America.

But it's that tension between the sometimes overly indulgent patriotism of the right and the perpetual dissatisfaction of the left that is the root of all our political conflict. Giuliani was arguing that because Obama was more willing to criticize America and Americans on account of the ways we as a nation still don't perfectly live up to our stated ideals, he therefore was not patriotic and didn't love America. Obviously, that's ridiculous. But it does center the fact that there is a spectrum in how much people are willing to love America versus criticize America.

What I am suggesting is that part of the spectrum of left leaning folks in this country spend TOO MUCH time criticizing America and Americans, and not enough time appreciating the good things about it and the progress that we have in fact made. The criticism used to be mostly relatively healthy. But, as I have said before, when they didn't get their way on everything (and to be clear, I believe that some of the things they were fighting for were completely legitimate) their only strategy was to escalate the rhetoric and pound their fists on the table even harder.

And so suddenly everything was racist. Everything was injustice. America was only capable of bad things. The oppressor–oppressed framework became the primary rubric for evaluating everything. It was intellectually lazy, it did not produce real justice, and it annoyed the fuck out of everybody. And now the Democrats political approval reflects those choices.

So when you ask "How do you think the folks you are arguing with feel about the Democratic party" this is what I mean. I know you are dissatisfied with the Democrats. So am I. But we have different reasons for it. The progressives only know how to complain, and as a consequence make things worse for everybody else. I want to make Democrats Great Again. When the GOP is so terrible, it shouldn't be that hard for the Democrats to be a party we can be proud of.

And the shitty thing is, it wasn't even the mainstream Democrats for the most part. A lot of them went along with it, but it mostly accelerated with Bernie and his coalition. They didn't get what they wanted in 2016, and they've just been throwing a tantrum ever since. The mainstream Democrats, who maybe to some extent agreed with the progressives and wanted to be good allies (or at least not be cancelled by the mob), did not sufficiently push back against the excesses of the progressives. I include myself in that. Up until about 2022, I was still pretty sympathetic to progressive viewpoints. Actually, I still support most progressive viewpoints. They have terrible tactics for trying to rally support to their causes, and the worst part is that they spend all their time pointing the finger at everybody else for all their sins, but are incapable of recognizing when they've also been wrong.

And because the progressive side is incapable of recognizing their own excesses and their own moral failures, and they continue to point the finger at everybody else, the Democrats keep losing. It was bad enough that the establishment folks screwed up: Biden and Kamala were bad candidates for 2024. It never should have gone down that way. But maybe we still could have won, if Republicans couldn't keep shining a light on all the ridiculous nonsense the progressives have been doing the last decade, and if the establishment Democrats had been more willing to call them out for it and better protect the dem party brand.

And so now we are stuck with Trump again.


As for Forward, I'm honestly not that involved. It's hard to make people excited about a "party" that's focused on 3 electoral reform policies. I still agree that those would help improve our political system, but I'm more of an observer than a participant. but the fact that dem AND gop approval are at historic lows does show that there is an appetite for a reasonable 3rd party. I was honestly hoping the country would splinter into 4 separate parties, but that didn't work out.

[Edited on August 20, 2025 at 10:59 AM. Reason : .]

8/20/2025 10:51:18 AM

I feel like that ^ is very well said, and from a disaffected conservative’s point of view, it’s also how I feel about how the Democrats went so wrong in 2024. Actually no, strike that. I think their biggest failure for 2024 was talking Biden out of stepping down.

But you have people like TGL who think they’ve done nothing wrong, and want to double-down on all the things that have gotten the Democrats to this point.

I honestly want to see them win in 2026, and then in 2028. I don’t think the Republicans will be able to front a middle-of-the-road candidate for a long time. Trump has broken the party and it is going to take some serious introspection (and let’s face it, Republicans/conservatives are NOT the party of introspection) to try and right all the wrongs that have occurred over the last 12 years.

8/20/2025 11:05:59 AM

Quote :

"But you have people like TGL who think they’ve done nothing wrong, and want to double-down on all the things that have gotten the Democrats to this point."

care to provide an example?

8/20/2025 11:21:11 AM