Americans are afraid of the idea that a huge number of our social and political systems go back to race, but this is the actual reality of our country specifically. Probably other countries have similar things but we have our own unique American experience with this. This 100+ year effort to erase Black Americans from history specifically underpins a lot of the problematic politicians we have today. Gonna start cataloging things I come across that demonstrate this.

For example all of the original cowboys were Black. "Boy" was an insulting term for a grown man. A white ranch worker was a "cowhand." a Black ranch worker was a "cowboy."

And "buckaroo" means "cowboy," because someone in California back in the day couldn't spell "Vaquero."

6/23/2025 9:49:52 AM

I really wish you would read this book from waitbutwhy and find your way back to liberalism

6/23/2025 10:14:32 AM

I can’t support an ideology that encourages people to deny factual information even if it temporarily causes people to act better. I think we actually tried this through the 90s and people did rapidly start to treat each other better. But then 9/11 showed that these attitudes were only superficial as long as entertainment and money kept flowing. Since 9/11 it’s been a steady decline in liberalism throughout society because people never understood WHY we needed equality and Justice.

Had we done the hard work though teach the dark truths about American history (like the Tulsa massacre and burning of thriving black towns across the country), I think things would have been better off. I’m familiar with Tim Urbans work on this from Twitter but was not impressed. I’ll give it another look though…

6/23/2025 11:28:07 AM

Quote :

"an ideology that encourages people to deny factual information"

can you elaborate?

Quote :

"people did rapidly start to treat each other better"

i think so too. of course there were still problems, but directionally we were making progress. one problem I see with the left (i don't like using the term far left, but here I am referring to the left of moderate left. think the bernie/aoc/dsa coalition) is that nothing is ever good enough. they aren't satisfied with incremental but real progress, so they demand the entire system be torn down

Quote :

"9/11 showed that these attitudes were only superficial as long as entertainment and money kept flowing"

again, i'm gonna request elaboration. what's entertainment/money have to do with it?

Quote :

" Since 9/11 it’s been a steady decline in liberalism throughout society "

i mean, americans did elect barack hussein obama less than a decade after 9/11? despite the post-9/11 anti-muslim/arab hysteria, liberalism was still generally moving us in the "right" direction, in terms of social justice anyways. including on the conservative side of america, despite the left's reluctance to recognize, appreciate and lean into it because it wasn't immediate and total enough (and before you respond it SHOULD have been immediate and total - remember obama didn't even support gay marriage his first term. like it or not, just or not, the reality is these shifts do take time. we're only human).

the swing toward populism on the right and left has at its root been more economic in nature (mostly due to global geopolitical + technological shifts over the last few generations). but the culture wars have been a more accessible outlet for people's frustrations, and so both the far right and far left have leaned into those issues, and it's mostly been a distraction from actually solving our problems (political, economic and social). and the politicians lean into it too bc our political system has become so gridlocked that once people get elected they also can't seem to get anything done (look at jeff jackson's experience), so what's left to do but adopt the predominant strategy of the rest of the party and just lean into the grievances of the base, try to get attention in the media (social and traditional), fundraise off of it to keep getting re-elected, and hope the pitchforks don't come for you when the real underlying problems that keep getting worse finally rupture society.

6/23/2025 12:11:07 PM

Quote :

"again, i'm gonna request elaboration. what's entertainment/money have to do with it?"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks_comments_on_George_W._Bush

[Edited on June 23, 2025 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

6/23/2025 1:50:02 PM

Quote :

"of course there were still problems, but directionally we were making progress. one problem I see with the left (i don't like using the term far left, but here I am referring to the left of moderate left. think the bernie/aoc/dsa coalition) is that nothing is ever good enough. they aren't satisfied with incremental but real progress, so they demand the entire system be torn down"

The problem is that the progress was, as moron says, largely superficial. The 80's and 90's saw society make an implicit bargain: the ruling class would quit openly mistreating the ruled classes, but they would keep on ruling. Essentially: "We will quit smacking secretaries on the ass and referring to black employees as 'colored,' and in return you will quit your bitching."

Those offerings were positive steps, sure - but without an actual change in the power structure, they are always subject to withdrawal. That can be covert - the sexual harassment takes place behind closed doors, the discriminatory hiring practices become unspoken - or they can happen right in the open. We're seeing plenty of that now, under Trump: a significant portion of the ruling class is openly calling for their part of the bargain to be rolled back. Kill DEI. Get women barefoot and pregnant again.

In other words, your gains are not really yours unless you have the power to keep them.

As to "nothing is ever good enough" - Christ, what a whiner. There is always room for improvement! No part of American society has reached utopian perfection, and it never will. Taking a step is great. Advocating and striving to take the next step is also great. It's how that first step got taken to begin with.

I would like to know what system AOC and Bernie want to tear down. I don't recall hearing any of them advocate for the establishment of a Supreme Soviet or anything.

Quote :

"i mean, americans did elect barack hussein obama less than a decade after 9/11?"

...an election which permanently broke the brains of half the electorate, which saw the outcome as a violation of the implicit bargain ("Hey, we said we'd let you guys use the water fountain, but only if we got to stay in charge.")

Quote :

"despite the left's reluctance to recognize, appreciate and lean into it because it wasn't immediate and total enough"

So what exactly are you advocating for instead? Every time an incremental change is made, are we to say, "Oh, thank you master, this is so very generous," and then shut the fuck up? Yes, shifts take time. But they only occur because people keep pushing for them during that time.

6/24/2025 6:02:30 AM

For a nice chart
SPLCs chart based on a similar fbi dataset




Note this doesn’t include Indians and Sikhs and all the other brown people that have been harassed and killed by people just not knowing or caring that they’re not Muslims.

6/25/2025 12:05:04 AM

it's amusing to me that Tim is citing this stat as to why wokeness is wrong:


If you dig into this 1 more layer deep, you'll know that in the 1970s the majority of African Americans became okay with interracial marriage but it took the ruling class white population until the mid 90s for a slim majority to become approving of this. this delta actually demonstrates the opposite of the point Tim is trying to make. that's 30 years after the end of legal apartheid in America, of pervasive and on-going social apartheid.

I read all of the free sample (52 pages) on the Tim urban book and not sure where it's going, I'll pirate it if it's really worth it.

re the Ryan Chapman video, it doesn't take a revolution to say that government should be fair and right its wrongs, it literally just takes DEI which does also require race consciousness, because the country is actually a white supremacist nation as explicitly formed, and presently based on inertia. But racial consciousness doesn't mean disunity, as I think the youth on TikTok have been demonstrating.

6/28/2025 12:46:26 AM